Let's Wise Up and Consider a Gas Well!!
Moderator: Gillespie
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Terry Frysinger
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:20 pm
AEW, if I understand you correctly you believe Wikipedia is an invalid source of information but Ed Morrissey's Hotair provides an impartial view of the petroleum industry?
Also, I'm still waiting for the answer to my "What's in it for me?" question. Certainly any sane person would acknowledge there is some risk involved in fracking, however small. It appears I have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Also, I'm still waiting for the answer to my "What's in it for me?" question. Certainly any sane person would acknowledge there is some risk involved in fracking, however small. It appears I have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.
No, I don't think HotAir is impartial, I was kinda trying to demonstrate that we can find "reporters/articles" to tell us what ever we wish to hear. We need good solid honest information.
Hey, this whole NG thing may be a really dumb idea for the island. The more I learn the less I think it is a viable option. My curiosity is what perks my interest in this subject. My mind wanders into the thought of energy Independence for the Island. But hey, my mind wanders about a lot of things.
After reading an email this morning from a friend with experience in this area it seems to me that the only benefit that a NG Well could provide to the Island would be Power Plant generation. NG cannot be compressed and delivered like Propane to homes. And I am sure we ALL are not interested in piping ng lines all over the Island.
I guess the "whats in it for me" question cannot be answered until we know more. My hope is that the answer could be "Clean, low cost, local energy run as an Island cooperative" emphasis on HOPE.
Hey, this whole NG thing may be a really dumb idea for the island. The more I learn the less I think it is a viable option. My curiosity is what perks my interest in this subject. My mind wanders into the thought of energy Independence for the Island. But hey, my mind wanders about a lot of things.
After reading an email this morning from a friend with experience in this area it seems to me that the only benefit that a NG Well could provide to the Island would be Power Plant generation. NG cannot be compressed and delivered like Propane to homes. And I am sure we ALL are not interested in piping ng lines all over the Island.
I guess the "whats in it for me" question cannot be answered until we know more. My hope is that the answer could be "Clean, low cost, local energy run as an Island cooperative" emphasis on HOPE.
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Frank Solle
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:52 am
First of all, Iâ??m all for looking at proposals to better or improve life on Beaver Island. Just because I donâ??t agree with Richie on the natural gas issue does not, in any way, discount my concerns for Beaver Island or Island life. Secondly, every issue has, at least, two sides. If he chooses to present one side of this issue, good for him. If I choose to present another, well, good for me. But we should limit ourselves to the issue and not lower the bar to personal attacks.
From everything Iâ??ve researched there seems to be a number of serious environmental concerns associated with natural gas production, especially when â??frackingâ?? is involved. I believe those concerns are multiplied when applied to the unique and isolated environment we have here on Beaver Island. Two of the most obvious concerns are the amount of water required in the â??frackingâ?? processâ??where would it come from? And the disposal of the wastewater along with the undisclosed chemical additives following drillingâ??where would it go? There is also the question of what, if any, damage could be done to our aquifer? Are any of these worth the risk?
There also are many, many questions concerning the financial side of such an undertaking. Costs of drilling are extremely highâ??who pays for that? Then, if gas is found (how much does it cost simply to find out if the gas is actually under us? or to find where the best site to access it is?), what does it cost to store it, transport it, use it? What is the cost of installing adequate and safe pipelines to each and every building/dwelling on the Island? What is the maintenance cost of such pipeline? What is the cost of converting an automobile to natural gas? Or creating a compressed natural gas (CNG) fueling station? How many CNG cars would be needed to make a fueling station viable? Currently, there is only one car in U.S. production fully equipped for CNG, a Honda Civic model that costs $27,000. Would everyone need to purchase a natural gas furnace? (Even we wood-burners?) Appliances? What does a natural gas-powered electricity generating plant cost? Who would run it? Where would it be? Would the state allow one here? Apparently I have more questions than answers.
There would as well seem to be a variety of cultural concerns associated with this proposal, not only concerning the bringing of materials and workers here to complete this project, but how such a project would affect the Islandsâ?? base economy of tourism.
All of these issues need to be considered. In that light, I am in full agreement that some type of panel of experts should be gathered to present all sides of this issueâ??geologists, petro-chemists, environmental experts, industry experts, etc. And, yes, I think everyone, regardless of their position on the issue, should see the movie â??Gaslandâ? too.
I can certainly agree with the vision of the Island being unburdened from an energy tie to the mainland. I simply do not believe doing so under the warm petro-glow of natural gas is an environmentally-viable or economically-feasible option. I also wonder sometimes, when viewing the great amount of of our timber resources that have been shipped off-Island over the past few years, what if we collected all the tops and scraps that remain after logging or land clearing, or even used a small amount of land for wood cropping, of the viability of using these resources in a biomass-powered electricity plant? (Ah, more questions arise.) The current plight of our beech trees and the prospect of losing somewhere in the area of 50-60% of them to beech bark disease over the coming years could figure into that equation as well. Creating useable biomass would be a great way to make use of the townshipâ??s stump grinder and a way to provide year-round employment for a good number of residents. Prudent use of this available natural resource, combined with a â??greenerâ?? option such as wind power, seems a much better fit for the Island than drilling into the unknown.
From everything Iâ??ve researched there seems to be a number of serious environmental concerns associated with natural gas production, especially when â??frackingâ?? is involved. I believe those concerns are multiplied when applied to the unique and isolated environment we have here on Beaver Island. Two of the most obvious concerns are the amount of water required in the â??frackingâ?? processâ??where would it come from? And the disposal of the wastewater along with the undisclosed chemical additives following drillingâ??where would it go? There is also the question of what, if any, damage could be done to our aquifer? Are any of these worth the risk?
There also are many, many questions concerning the financial side of such an undertaking. Costs of drilling are extremely highâ??who pays for that? Then, if gas is found (how much does it cost simply to find out if the gas is actually under us? or to find where the best site to access it is?), what does it cost to store it, transport it, use it? What is the cost of installing adequate and safe pipelines to each and every building/dwelling on the Island? What is the maintenance cost of such pipeline? What is the cost of converting an automobile to natural gas? Or creating a compressed natural gas (CNG) fueling station? How many CNG cars would be needed to make a fueling station viable? Currently, there is only one car in U.S. production fully equipped for CNG, a Honda Civic model that costs $27,000. Would everyone need to purchase a natural gas furnace? (Even we wood-burners?) Appliances? What does a natural gas-powered electricity generating plant cost? Who would run it? Where would it be? Would the state allow one here? Apparently I have more questions than answers.
There would as well seem to be a variety of cultural concerns associated with this proposal, not only concerning the bringing of materials and workers here to complete this project, but how such a project would affect the Islandsâ?? base economy of tourism.
All of these issues need to be considered. In that light, I am in full agreement that some type of panel of experts should be gathered to present all sides of this issueâ??geologists, petro-chemists, environmental experts, industry experts, etc. And, yes, I think everyone, regardless of their position on the issue, should see the movie â??Gaslandâ? too.
I can certainly agree with the vision of the Island being unburdened from an energy tie to the mainland. I simply do not believe doing so under the warm petro-glow of natural gas is an environmentally-viable or economically-feasible option. I also wonder sometimes, when viewing the great amount of of our timber resources that have been shipped off-Island over the past few years, what if we collected all the tops and scraps that remain after logging or land clearing, or even used a small amount of land for wood cropping, of the viability of using these resources in a biomass-powered electricity plant? (Ah, more questions arise.) The current plight of our beech trees and the prospect of losing somewhere in the area of 50-60% of them to beech bark disease over the coming years could figure into that equation as well. Creating useable biomass would be a great way to make use of the townshipâ??s stump grinder and a way to provide year-round employment for a good number of residents. Prudent use of this available natural resource, combined with a â??greenerâ?? option such as wind power, seems a much better fit for the Island than drilling into the unknown.
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Maureen Abele
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:07 pm
- Location: Beaver Island
- Contact:
Has anyone else seen the news stories about fracking disposal wells in Arkansas that appear to be causing earthquakes in the area?
A report about the quakes surfaced in Feb.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/us/06 ... arthquakes
The disposal wells were shut down last week. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/0 ... 31633.html
The link between the quakes and the disposal wells has not been proven yet, but it's serious enough to shut the operation down.
A report about the quakes surfaced in Feb.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/us/06 ... arthquakes
The disposal wells were shut down last week. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/0 ... 31633.html
The link between the quakes and the disposal wells has not been proven yet, but it's serious enough to shut the operation down.
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Pam Grassmick
- Posts: 638
- Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:07 pm
- Location: Beaver Island
For your consideration: I would like to direct the discussions to John Works, then Supervisor of Peaine Township, and Beth Anne Lucas' husband, Steve Lucas, who is a geologist and has information concerning the discussions that took place years ago about opening up the old oil well sites for brine extraction for the dust control. Steve traveled to the Island and presented his data to a group formed to discuss road improvements and I was present. The site discussed for brine storage was identified as the Township's Airport. The cost estimates and regulatory hurdles were over $600,000 for extraction and storage for road dust control. Steve has data to address just how much natural gas was found and should be able to provide cost estimates. We all know that there was not enough oil to invest in such an endeavor and the brine extraction was just too costly and was dropped.
McGrass