Let's Wise Up and Consider a Gas Well!!
Moderator: Gillespie
Let's Wise Up and Consider a Gas Well!!
Here we sit some three years after I brought the topic up, now facing record fuel prices nationwide (again). It has been discovered that there is a formation that goes right under Beaver Island through to the U.P. and starting somewhere well down state that is suggested to have one of the largest natural gas deposits ever found. Shall we sit on it or consider making use of it. There is a lot of fighting and bickering going on here but nothing seems to be productive! Let's discuss our own energy independence and the future of this community! A publicly owned gas well would be our ticket to a nice, hopefully peaceful retirement community. This could provide energy for every home, brine to keep dust under control, energy for our backup power plant and much more! Going nowhere fast otherwise!
This is a great Idea that would provide real "Sustainability" to the Island residents and economy. Natural Gas (NG) wells make a very small footprint. NG is a very clean burning fuel source. It would be great to get some folks over with expertise to allow a discussion to begin in the community. I have envisioned an Island NG co-op with refill station, service, vehicle conversions, delivery, power generation, etc for years. There are a lot of ideas to look at. We need an abundant energy source can provide HEAT to homes in the winter. If we can get it here it is better for all of us. Solar and Wind will not heat our homes.
Adam E. Wirth
Adam E. Wirth
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Frank Solle
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:52 am
Currently there is no proof that either Antrim or Collingwood shale deposits lie beneath B.I. Furthermore, any shale-oriented gas removal involves hydraulic fracturing (commonly known as 'hydrofracking'). This is not necessarily an environmentally friendly process.
From Wikipedia: Some environmental and human health concerns possibly associated with hydraulic fracturing include the contamination of ground water, risks to air quality, the migration of gases and hydraulic fracturing chemicals to the surface, and the potential mishandling of waste. The potential costs associated with possible environmental clean-up processes, loss of land value and human and animal health concerns are undetermined. New technological advances and appropriate state regulations are working to study and safely implement the process.
Hydraulic fracturing has a significant environmental impact, with arguments centered around the extent to which fracturing fluid used far below the earth's surface and will pollute fresh water zones, will contaminate surface or near-surface water supplies, impact rock shelf causing seismic events or lead to surface subsidence. However, well casing failures and failures of the gas well grouting systems may have been responsible for gas migration into drinking water aquifers in Dimock, Pennsylvania. Also, water-related pollution events that occur from hydraulic fracturing are on or relatively near the surface. With the transport, handling, storage and use of chemicals and chemical-laden water, accidents that release materials into the environment may occur.
In April 2010 the state of Pennsylvania banned Cabot Oil & Gas Corp. from further drilling in the entire state until it plugs wells believed to be the source of contamination of the drinking water of 14 homes in Dimock Township PA. The investigation was initiated after a water well exploded on New Year's Day in 2009. The state investigation revealed that Cabot Oil & Gas Company "had allowed combustible gas to escape into the region's groundwater supplies."[19]
A well blowout in Clearfield County, PA on June 3, 2010 sent more than 35,000 gallons of hydraulic fracturing fluids into the air and onto the surrounding landscape in a forested area. Campers were evacuated and the company EOG Resources and the well completion company C.C. Forbes have been ordered to cease all operations in the state of Pennsylvania pending investigation. The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection has called this a "serious incident".[20][21]
Injection of fluid into subsurface geological structures, such as faults and fractures, reduces the effective normal stress acting across these structures. If sufficient shear stress is present, the structure may slip in shear and generate seismic events over a range of magnitudes. Subsidence is not directly caused by hydraulic fracturing but may occur after considerable production of oil or ground water. Subsidence occurs over reservoirs whether they have been subject to hydraulic fracturing or not because it is a result of producing fluids from the reservoir and lowering the reservoir pore pressure. The subsidence process can be associated with some seismicity. Reports of minor tremors of no greater than 2.8 on the Richter scale were reported on June 2, 2009 in Cleburne, Texas - the first in the town's 140-year history.[22]
One use of hydraulic fracturing is in stimulating water wells. In that case, the fluid used may be pure water (typically water and a disinfectant such as bleach).[citation needed] Another use of hydraulic fracturing is to remediate waste spills by injecting bacteria, air, or other materials into a subsurface contaminated zone.[citation needed]
It has been reported that the hydraulic fracturing industry has refused to publicly disclose, due to intellectual property concerns, the specific formulation of the fluids employed in the fracturing process. A "NOW on PBS" episode aired in March 2010 introduces the documentary film Gasland. The filmmaker claims that the chemicals include toxins, known carcinogens and heavy metals which may have polluted the ground water near well sites in Pennsylvania and Colorado. The film also makes a case for explosive gases entering private potable water wells, causing "flammable water".
Energy in Depth, an oil and gas industry organization has published a list of chemicals in a "typical solution used in hydraulic fracturing," but notes "The specific compounds used in a given fracturing operation will vary." [23]
The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation has published a list of chemicals used in fracturing fluids.
A 2008 newspaper report states that medical personnel were inhibited in their treatment of workers injured in a fracturing accident because they did not know which specific chemicals were used. In the article, a nurse claimed she may have been exposed to the unknown chemicals on the patient's clothes.[24] Release of information, pertaining to hazardous components of any and all industrial chemicals, to medical and emgergency personnel has been governed by OSHA since the 1974 Right-To-know legislation.
In the United States, a 2004 Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) study concluded that the process was safe and didn't warrant further study, because there was "no unequivocal evidence" of health risks, and the fluids were neither necessarily hazardous nor able to travel far underground. That study, however, was not intended as a general study of hydraulic fracturing, but only of its use in coalbed methane deposits, and the study did not consider impacts above ground.[25] The EPA report did find uncertainties in knowledge of how fracturing fluid migrates through rocks, and upon its release service companies voluntarily agreed to stop using diesel fuel as a component of fracturing fluid in coalbed methane walls due to public concerns of its potential as a source of benzene contamination.[26]
With critics claiming that Bush administration officials influenced the 2004 EPA study, the U.S. Congress has requested that the EPA undertake a new, broader study of hydraulic fracturing. The report is due to be released in 2012.[27]
From Wikipedia: Some environmental and human health concerns possibly associated with hydraulic fracturing include the contamination of ground water, risks to air quality, the migration of gases and hydraulic fracturing chemicals to the surface, and the potential mishandling of waste. The potential costs associated with possible environmental clean-up processes, loss of land value and human and animal health concerns are undetermined. New technological advances and appropriate state regulations are working to study and safely implement the process.
Hydraulic fracturing has a significant environmental impact, with arguments centered around the extent to which fracturing fluid used far below the earth's surface and will pollute fresh water zones, will contaminate surface or near-surface water supplies, impact rock shelf causing seismic events or lead to surface subsidence. However, well casing failures and failures of the gas well grouting systems may have been responsible for gas migration into drinking water aquifers in Dimock, Pennsylvania. Also, water-related pollution events that occur from hydraulic fracturing are on or relatively near the surface. With the transport, handling, storage and use of chemicals and chemical-laden water, accidents that release materials into the environment may occur.
In April 2010 the state of Pennsylvania banned Cabot Oil & Gas Corp. from further drilling in the entire state until it plugs wells believed to be the source of contamination of the drinking water of 14 homes in Dimock Township PA. The investigation was initiated after a water well exploded on New Year's Day in 2009. The state investigation revealed that Cabot Oil & Gas Company "had allowed combustible gas to escape into the region's groundwater supplies."[19]
A well blowout in Clearfield County, PA on June 3, 2010 sent more than 35,000 gallons of hydraulic fracturing fluids into the air and onto the surrounding landscape in a forested area. Campers were evacuated and the company EOG Resources and the well completion company C.C. Forbes have been ordered to cease all operations in the state of Pennsylvania pending investigation. The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection has called this a "serious incident".[20][21]
Injection of fluid into subsurface geological structures, such as faults and fractures, reduces the effective normal stress acting across these structures. If sufficient shear stress is present, the structure may slip in shear and generate seismic events over a range of magnitudes. Subsidence is not directly caused by hydraulic fracturing but may occur after considerable production of oil or ground water. Subsidence occurs over reservoirs whether they have been subject to hydraulic fracturing or not because it is a result of producing fluids from the reservoir and lowering the reservoir pore pressure. The subsidence process can be associated with some seismicity. Reports of minor tremors of no greater than 2.8 on the Richter scale were reported on June 2, 2009 in Cleburne, Texas - the first in the town's 140-year history.[22]
One use of hydraulic fracturing is in stimulating water wells. In that case, the fluid used may be pure water (typically water and a disinfectant such as bleach).[citation needed] Another use of hydraulic fracturing is to remediate waste spills by injecting bacteria, air, or other materials into a subsurface contaminated zone.[citation needed]
It has been reported that the hydraulic fracturing industry has refused to publicly disclose, due to intellectual property concerns, the specific formulation of the fluids employed in the fracturing process. A "NOW on PBS" episode aired in March 2010 introduces the documentary film Gasland. The filmmaker claims that the chemicals include toxins, known carcinogens and heavy metals which may have polluted the ground water near well sites in Pennsylvania and Colorado. The film also makes a case for explosive gases entering private potable water wells, causing "flammable water".
Energy in Depth, an oil and gas industry organization has published a list of chemicals in a "typical solution used in hydraulic fracturing," but notes "The specific compounds used in a given fracturing operation will vary." [23]
The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation has published a list of chemicals used in fracturing fluids.
A 2008 newspaper report states that medical personnel were inhibited in their treatment of workers injured in a fracturing accident because they did not know which specific chemicals were used. In the article, a nurse claimed she may have been exposed to the unknown chemicals on the patient's clothes.[24] Release of information, pertaining to hazardous components of any and all industrial chemicals, to medical and emgergency personnel has been governed by OSHA since the 1974 Right-To-know legislation.
In the United States, a 2004 Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) study concluded that the process was safe and didn't warrant further study, because there was "no unequivocal evidence" of health risks, and the fluids were neither necessarily hazardous nor able to travel far underground. That study, however, was not intended as a general study of hydraulic fracturing, but only of its use in coalbed methane deposits, and the study did not consider impacts above ground.[25] The EPA report did find uncertainties in knowledge of how fracturing fluid migrates through rocks, and upon its release service companies voluntarily agreed to stop using diesel fuel as a component of fracturing fluid in coalbed methane walls due to public concerns of its potential as a source of benzene contamination.[26]
With critics claiming that Bush administration officials influenced the 2004 EPA study, the U.S. Congress has requested that the EPA undertake a new, broader study of hydraulic fracturing. The report is due to be released in 2012.[27]
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robert overheul
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:23 pm
- Location: south haven,mi 49090
- Contact:
gillespie/ gass well
there is new info on this subject . i have done more reasurch--interesting. call me.r.o.
It would be help full to get some experts in the NG field to make an assessment and presentation to the community. First we have to know if there is in fact a viable source here on the Island. Without that knowledge the whole thing is a mute point.
Sure would be great if we could be energy self sufficient! Thats what I call "Sustainability"
http://www.northernmichiganlawyer.com/n ... as_law.htm
Sure would be great if we could be energy self sufficient! Thats what I call "Sustainability"
http://www.northernmichiganlawyer.com/n ... as_law.htm
Had an interesting conversation with Mr. Overheul who obviously is well versed on the industry being a retired driller and having drilled many wells across this state. He is going to provide additional information but informs me that the formation does come up through here and that this would not only be a good project for the island but that it could be heavily supported through energy grants. We shall see, he is willing to come and visit with a group at some point down the road. Best positive response I have seen yet. It is easy to throw stones at the topic but not one thing came from my posting of a few years ago on the topic so I bring it up again. I feel, and have all my life, that bringing fossil fuels out here when natural gas could be under us in huge volume is a disaster waiting to happen. Reference the Marold II and other things that have happened even such as the time my brother didn't close the latch on a hose one day and pumped 5000 gallons of ethyl gasoline into the harbor or another time we he (or I) mixed fuel oil and gasoline together forcing our father to have to take that product back to the mainland which was taken then back to the producer. I think a positive approach is the right way to go because the negatives will present themselves in due course. One gets the feeling that someone is just there to pee on their campfire so lets keep it positive! This could truly make island life more affordable all the way around!
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Maureen Abele
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:07 pm
- Location: Beaver Island
- Contact:
It may be a good idea to see what the results of natural gas drilling ... otherwise known as fracking... have been in other communities. Here are two Internet resources....
http://www.propublica.org/article/hydro ... -gas-drill
http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/whats-fracking
http://www.propublica.org/article/hydro ... -gas-drill
http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/whats-fracking
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Maureen Abele
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:07 pm
- Location: Beaver Island
- Contact:
I am very much in favor of Beaver Island being energy independent, but there are a lot of questions about fracking.
The American Petroleum Institute marketing brochure claims that protective measures are in place and thatâ??s true. But fracking was exempted from the Safe Drinking Water Act under the Energy Policy Act of 2005. As a result, we now have a patchwork of laws that vary from state to state. And since Michiganâ??s DEQ budget has been continuously slashed for the past decade, I donâ??t think we can count on them for oversight and protection.
2 to 5 million gallons of water are needed to fracture one horizontal well in a shale formation. That water comes from surface water or groundwater. Then, chemicals are added, and drilling companies are not required to reveal what chemicals they use, although they have admitted to using diesel fuel as one additive. Flowback water following fracturing is disposed of in a variety of ways... it may be returned underground using a permitted underground injection well, discharged to surface waters after treatment to remove contaminants, or applied to land surfaces.
There are an increasing number of reports of health hazards caused by fracking fluid chemicals and the toxic minerals that rise to the surface in the millions of gallons of fracking waste-waterâ?¦all of which can seep into ground-water sources.
Maybe a trip to Dimrock, PA is in orderâ?¦ couldnâ??t hurt to talk to the folks there who have actually experienced fracking and what can happen with this form of drilling. Or you can read Dimrockâ??s story and then decide if you want to risk Beaver Islandâ??s drinking waterâ?¦.
http://www.vanityfair.com/business/feat ... nia-201006
Another thought: Has anyone investigated the possibility of wind energy? Beaver Island is very close to one area that has the highest wind energy production potential in the state.
http://www.gvsu.edu/wind/project-documents-3.htm
The American Petroleum Institute marketing brochure claims that protective measures are in place and thatâ??s true. But fracking was exempted from the Safe Drinking Water Act under the Energy Policy Act of 2005. As a result, we now have a patchwork of laws that vary from state to state. And since Michiganâ??s DEQ budget has been continuously slashed for the past decade, I donâ??t think we can count on them for oversight and protection.
2 to 5 million gallons of water are needed to fracture one horizontal well in a shale formation. That water comes from surface water or groundwater. Then, chemicals are added, and drilling companies are not required to reveal what chemicals they use, although they have admitted to using diesel fuel as one additive. Flowback water following fracturing is disposed of in a variety of ways... it may be returned underground using a permitted underground injection well, discharged to surface waters after treatment to remove contaminants, or applied to land surfaces.
There are an increasing number of reports of health hazards caused by fracking fluid chemicals and the toxic minerals that rise to the surface in the millions of gallons of fracking waste-waterâ?¦all of which can seep into ground-water sources.
Maybe a trip to Dimrock, PA is in orderâ?¦ couldnâ??t hurt to talk to the folks there who have actually experienced fracking and what can happen with this form of drilling. Or you can read Dimrockâ??s story and then decide if you want to risk Beaver Islandâ??s drinking waterâ?¦.
http://www.vanityfair.com/business/feat ... nia-201006
Another thought: Has anyone investigated the possibility of wind energy? Beaver Island is very close to one area that has the highest wind energy production potential in the state.
http://www.gvsu.edu/wind/project-documents-3.htm
The University of Michigan did a wind study here many years ago (which probably could be redone) and determined that we did not have consistent enough winds practical for wind generation but that has all changed with different wind generators etc. The biggest issue relates to cost, wind generators typical of what we might need start at about a million dollars each plus installation, cabling and connection, one could easily figure 1.5 million per and probably more. What the if the wind stops blowing?
As to the well, the intent would not necessarily be to use a fracking well but a vertical well with a woodstock lateral and a circumference tail allowing a larger area of gas to be collected from one wellhead. I learned this from Mr. Overheul who is gathering information as we speak as to the geology and other requirements necessary for a project like this. Needless to say, funding would be a large and pretty much first consideration!
As to the well, the intent would not necessarily be to use a fracking well but a vertical well with a woodstock lateral and a circumference tail allowing a larger area of gas to be collected from one wellhead. I learned this from Mr. Overheul who is gathering information as we speak as to the geology and other requirements necessary for a project like this. Needless to say, funding would be a large and pretty much first consideration!
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Frank Solle
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:52 am
The Missaukee well, which is the one that has everyone in Northern Michigan pinning their hopes on repeating, despite using 5.5 million gallons of 'liquid' (water plus undisclosed additives) to 'frack', wasn't done cheaply. According circleofblue.org, the Canadian company Encana "spent an estimated $7 million to $9 million to drill and hydrofrack the well, making it among the most expensive wells ever developed in the state. It bored a hole nearly 10,000 feet deep into the Earth: one of the deepest ever drilled in Michigan."
What if you drilled the hole and it was empty?
What if you drilled the hole and it was empty?
Offshore Canadian Rigs Tap Natural Gas for Years
Ontario is the only place on the Great Lakes where drilling occurs from offshore rigs. Large drilling platforms towering over the water drilling for natural gas - and oil, to a much lesser degree - has occurred on the lakes for decades.
Platforms are put in the water in late spring and removed before winter. Only natural gas is allowed to be drilled from offshore rigs. Canada has taken away the incentive for offshore oil exploration by requiring the sole operator, Talisman Energy, to plug immediately any offshore wells that strike oil. Oil rights are turned over to the government.
Ontario first allowed offshore drilling in 1913. The province has allowed 2,500 gas wells to be drilled into the lake over the years, with about 550 still in production. About 20 new wells are drilled a year.
Of the wells drilled beneath the Great Lakes on the Canadian side, a few are permitted to extract oil and natural gas. Michigan has allowed 13 wells to be drilled beneath Lake Michigan and Lake Huron since 1979. Seven are still in operation. Five in Manistee County, are used to extract natural gas from beneath Lake Michigan. One in Bay County, is used to extract gas from beneath Lake Huron. The other one, in Bay County, is used to extract oil.
Ontario is the only place on the Great Lakes where drilling occurs from offshore rigs. Large drilling platforms towering over the water drilling for natural gas - and oil, to a much lesser degree - has occurred on the lakes for decades.
Platforms are put in the water in late spring and removed before winter. Only natural gas is allowed to be drilled from offshore rigs. Canada has taken away the incentive for offshore oil exploration by requiring the sole operator, Talisman Energy, to plug immediately any offshore wells that strike oil. Oil rights are turned over to the government.
Ontario first allowed offshore drilling in 1913. The province has allowed 2,500 gas wells to be drilled into the lake over the years, with about 550 still in production. About 20 new wells are drilled a year.
Of the wells drilled beneath the Great Lakes on the Canadian side, a few are permitted to extract oil and natural gas. Michigan has allowed 13 wells to be drilled beneath Lake Michigan and Lake Huron since 1979. Seven are still in operation. Five in Manistee County, are used to extract natural gas from beneath Lake Michigan. One in Bay County, is used to extract gas from beneath Lake Huron. The other one, in Bay County, is used to extract oil.
Wind and Solar will NEVER be able to create the amount of energy needed to heat our homes for the Winter. It is just not a reality. I would like to see a presentation of lessons learned of the folks who do have alternative energy systems on their homes here on the Island. Wind and solar are certainly something to be considered in the equation of the total "energy" picture.
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Deborah452
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:52 am
Yup, there are a few, Wood burning heat i assume. Fracking is a very important thing we need to learn more about. There are a few real horror stories out there about it. But we have been "fracking for 60 years and there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of wells that have not created a problem. So, there are a lot of questions I still have too but they will be best answered by geologists, etc. Like the title of the original post says, "Consider".