Please Attend St. James Township Annual Meeting March 28th

Open Discussion - for our Readers, Islanders, and Web Site Visitors alike. Discussion regarding any and all aspects of Beaver Island are welcome here. Also a place for general Beaver Island conversation and discussion.

Moderator: Gillespie

nancyls35@hotmail.com
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:52 am
Location: Beaver Island

Post by nancyls35@hotmail.com »

P.S. Before I'm gone, I'd like to say I am sick of the B.I. Pirate and wish you would take a long walk off a short plank.
Nancy Sommer
Gillespie
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:43 pm
Contact:

Post by Gillespie »

You are right Nancy, the truth will come out. In the meantime we cannot afford much more. You are also right, the views on this topic show the interest and show that something needs to happen. When something is characterized as worse than Detroit or Flint's financial mess it is not something to ignore. "Deliberate"? After a period of years, yes. Only negligence in the beginning. Sadly, we shall all soon see.
Campbell60tr34@aol.com
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:12 pm

meeting

Post by Campbell60tr34@aol.com »

In a democracy, the principle of accountability holds that government officialsâ??whether elected or appointed by those who have been electedâ??are responsible to the citizenry for their decisions and actions. Transparency requires that the decisions and actions of those in government are open to public scrutiny and that the public has a right to access such information. Both concepts are central to the very idea of democratic governance. Without accountability and transparency, democracy is impossible. In their absence, elections and the notion of the will of the people have no meaning, and government has the potential to become arbitrary and self serving.
Jim Campbell
John Bolton
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: Sioux Falls SD

Post by John Bolton »

In many ways Nancy is spot on with her assessment of the way all of this is being played out..... I have witnessed the gradual degradation of the initial constructive conversation about the subject.
However, I would think that she would also have to admit that "all" of us have been waiting for several years to find out what was going on behind the Emerald Curtain.... and now that Toto has pulled the curtain back.... it is not pretty and it can not be ignored. Hopefully, solutions will come out in a timely manner, before more financial pain is heaped upon the situation.

Revolutions are started by agitators... from Sam Adams to the IRA. Just part of the process...
Yes, it is our island neighbors we are talking about. and No, we shouldn't have a trial and judgment on this forum. But Yes, our neighbors need to remember that the World is changing and the old ways are just not going to work anymore. and Yes, they should step forward with a real transparent solution or they should step back ....and let others take the helm in order to steer this island out of the troubled waters it has been navigating ...

Leaders are required to know when to correct and change course, then, sometimes, when all else fails, falling on your sword is the correct and honorable solution to a conflict. That is the choice leaders down through the ages have faced.
IMHO:
The Island requires a bigger gene pool. At the current rate of economic and demographic decline that pool is quickly contracting.
Is there anyway nonresidential taxpayers (the majority) could constructively endorse their own candidates?

Finally,
If Nancy, et al, feel this technological advancement of internet democracy is errant.......
while, according to the lawyers and accountants, there is a real long term and evidently ignored problem, coupled with the fact historically, it hasn't been addressed in a constructive way via public forum.......

....I still have those torches and pitchforks out behind the cabin :D
If we do not all hang together,
we will all hang separately,
Ben Franklin
Gillespie
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:43 pm
Contact:

Post by Gillespie »

Campbell posted: "In a democracy, the principle of accountability holds that government officialsâ??whether elected or appointed by those who have been electedâ??are responsible to the citizenry for their decisions and actions." Simple everyday records were requested last October, very slow in coming, more were requested, slower in coming, eventually the FOIA officer abrubtly resigned. Many requested records were never provided. She was, later IN THAT DAY, quoted to have said, "This is all going to blow up anyway." What should the rest of us do? Who believes that this was made up to pick on people? Who thinks that none of this happened? No one wants pitchforks and more, only accountability. This is no small matter.
jflanagan
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:54 am
Location: Chicago/BI

Post by jflanagan »

I find my self caught between the extremes of these arguments. I think we all need to be very careful about the innuendo and name calling that has gone on in a minority of posts. Those actions obscure the direction that this case must take. At the same time I think the calls from some to keep all of these issues out of the public view is also very wrong.

1) The problem must be exposed to the light of day and understood so that we do not repeat the mistakes that caused it in the first place.

2) We should understand that in a small community like ours people who serve the common good are often not experts in areas like law, accounting and public relations. Unless the evidence shows us that some sort of unethical behavior occurred we should give our neighbors the benefit of the doubt.

3) Now that we know there is a problem, the investigation needs to be done by people with no axe to grind. There are a lot of people who have already decided this issue one way or another. If those people are too involved with this process it will be hard to convince the entire community that a fair and objective investigation has been performed.

4) If people want to push for alternative slates of township officials, merging townships or any of the other issues that do not directly relate to the issues of the townships books and records I would beg them to hold that discussion in another thread.

I'd like to point out that most property owners on St. James are like myself. We are not on the island 12 months of the year. We do not have access to the discussions that take place in Dalwhinnies in the morning, McDonoughs during the day and the Shamrock and Donegal Dannys at night. All of us need better, more formal ways to understand the governance of the community we love. From what I have seen the Township Board has been moving in the right direction for the last few months.

When accurate, complete, information is made readily available to the community many of the rumors that have spread will not have an environment to grow in.
James Flanagan
37700 Font View Ct. 4439 N. California
Beaver Island, Mi Chicago, Il
49782 60625
231-448-2109 773-463-5494
BI Pirate
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:41 pm
Location: Whiskey Island

Post by BI Pirate »

Nancy, I know you no longer read the forum but just wanted to tell you I enjoyed your reply putting those guys in their place. You had me right up to your P.S. :( Loved the long walk, short plant line. I thought you were going to say a long walk off St James' short fishing pier. :D :wink: :D
Skull&CrossBones
sbsp
Posts: 443
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:06 pm
Location: Beaver Island, Kalamazoo, Fripp Island, SC

Post by sbsp »

What is keeping this thread active on the forum is to a large degree the inaction of the township in admitting that there is an issue. Until that happens there most likely will be a continuation of appropriate and inappropriate posts. I freely admit my posts fall into both categories as many have pointed out.
The first step to recovery from any crisis is to admit there is one. The frustration that I think many feel is that the attorney and auditors have publically admitted a serious proplem but the township remains rather silent on the issue which only makes it worse.

Kirk
stardust
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:11 pm

Post by stardust »

So there is no County or State over site of the townships financial well being :?: My second question is Whom sets the salaries and terms of employment for the townships board :?:
Donegaljim
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:45 am

Post by Donegaljim »

The terms for the township officials are set by Michigan law.....4 years. The Salaries for the officials are determined by the electorate at a public meeting. As I recall, Salaries cannot be raised or lowered during a current term.....they can only apply to the winners of the next election. The last time I saw an analysis, our Beaver Island officials were paid very generously as compared to comparable townships on the mainland although this may have changed over the past several years. This is all public information for anyone who wants to do a bit of research.
Jim Birdsall
Connie Boyle
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:50 pm

This is uncalled for

Post by Connie Boyle »

The posting of the above article is rude and uncalled for and should be deleted.
KaylynJ
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:43 pm
Location: Beaver Island

Post by KaylynJ »

I agree, Connie. This entire thread and the ones that accompany it are rude and uncalled for and should be deleted. This forum is not the place in which things like this should be discussed, in my opinion. Considering a great deal of the people that have been vocal about this issue are the same people who want to make sure that people continue to come here in the summer, you sure aren't doing a whole lot to shine a good light on this island.

There is no solid proof for what you are accusing these people of and I for one would be ashamed to have put these rude and hurtful words out there.

Kirk, the township is not going to come on here and admit to wrong doing even if they were doing things wrong. It goes against good sense and as I stated before, the forum is not the place. Are your egos so fragile that you won't stop this witch hunt until they fluff it for you by admitting you were "right"?

Do people access dictionaries anymore? Online or in print form? Because I have a few words for you to look up: slander, for you are doing it (you imply that the township clerk is embezzling as if it is fact when it is as of yet no more than your own delusions. Defamation of character); integrity, because you have none of it; and refinement, because you have even less of that than integrity.

Alas, I am once again left shaking and scratching my head over the fact that so many people here could turn on each other so quickly.

I suppose there is a lesson to be learned here: some people just enjoy making trouble and relishing in the drama that goes along with it. Might I suggest a hobby? I crochet and knit and it's rather enjoyable... \:D/
Kaylyn Jones
sbsp
Posts: 443
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:06 pm
Location: Beaver Island, Kalamazoo, Fripp Island, SC

Post by sbsp »

Kaylyn
Thank you for your post and whether we agree or disagree is not important. What is important is being passionate enough to express a side of an important issue. I think we both are passionate coming from different directions. I think a forum is the place to bring critical concerns to the public's attention and let each person form their own conclusion. If you are into definitions, look up "forum", the place for public debate on political issues. I'm not under any false illusion that the township board or any one individual is going to post a response to these accusations on the forum. If it were me, I would not. What I would do is take the matter very seriously and express that concern to the people whom the township serves as well as how the problems are going to be addressed and corrected. I have seen no evidence of that happening and that is what is keeping this thread alive.
With regard to solid proof, it doesn't get any more solid than what the auditors and township attorney have expressed and disclosed from their findings. St. James Township has serious financial issues most of them from wrong doing or doing it wrong. Sticking our heads in the sand for fear vacationers will not come to BI is not going to solve those problems. I have stated from the beginning, "our problems, our solutions". The township board has not bought into that concept.
On a lighter note, I have many faults but a fragile ego is not one of them and it needs no fluff. As far as hobbies, I have enough but thank you for your suggestions. Crocheting and knitting would not be options even in the absence of my having hobbies. A condition of my entering the Witness Protection Program is that I not come into contact with sharp objects.

Kirk
Last edited by sbsp on Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gillespie
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:43 pm
Contact:

Post by Gillespie »

The article was posted to point out the potential severity of our situation. It was posted to show that bad things can happen if checks and balances are not kept up. It was posted to show that a position of trust is just that. Certainly if it offends anyone they can choose to close their view of same.
Post Reply