Mitchell 396
Grand Island 45
Spurr 227
Wellington 296
Balance of Turner warner 389
There are many more small townships - although I am not sure what the point is, if we were to check with these townships I am sure it would be like compairing apples to oranges. Most of these townships would not have transferstations, part of them them no airports, health centers, marinas or ems/fire. I think we need to look at our sistuation not somebody elses as our sistuation and going to be very unique to most any other. Unless we were able to find another area set up as ours with a population as our in the same sistuation.
Beaver Island Community Center Forum on Consolidation
Moderator: Gillespie
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Andy's Grooming Barn
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:23 am
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Andy's Grooming Barn
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:23 am
If there was saving which I yet to be shown any then that would be true but that would have NOTHING to do with the homestead tax, their tax is based on their property value - I am a smart girl thank you - some people may not understand that and your post seemed misleading on that point so I was trying to clarify it. Homestead is a STATE tax it has nothing to do with this and will not be effected no matter what is decided here.
Andy Kohls
Andy's Grooming and Boarding Barn
Andy's Grooming and Boarding Barn
Rich . . .
You did not initially attribute the sewer comment to me. Now that you have, I can deny having made that comment or any similar comments. (Look at my posts, look at the website https://wkohls.wixsite.com/consolidationinfo If this was an effective argument, I would use it.)
With respect to your remaining comments, please refer to my post on January 22, 2018. (Emphasis added.)
Itâ??s been 12 days since John and Angel posted notice that township consolidation will appear on the May 8th ballot and it has been months since they circulated their petitions. A following thoughts seem evident . . .
1. If we were staring with a â??clean sheet of paper,â? itâ??s unlikely that anyone would design our current structure comprised of two townships and, at least to my knowledge, no one believes that two townships are theoretically superior to one township.
2. The question before the voters, however, is much more complicated. Concisely stated, the questions is . . . do the net tangible benefits of consolidation justify the consequential expenditures that will be required to complete the consolidation?
3. Any savings will have to come from the townshipsâ?? general funds.
a. Most township services (including the transfer station, airport, emergency services, health center) are already consolidated.
b. The townshipsâ?? road funds are basically a pass-thru account and, accordingly, there are no savings to be realized by consolidation.
4. This is far too important to ask the Islandâ??s voters to base their decision(s) on the unsupported claims, idle speculation and conjecture on the Forum.
5. Having started this process, it is incumbent upon John and Angel to provide reliable information (other than the technical provisions of the law.)
6. The failure to provide such information creates an informational void and more responsible parties would have prepared this information before circulating petitions.
7. Township voters would not accept this from elected officials and they should not accept it from unelected petitioners.
8. At a minimum, the information to be prepared by the petitioners should include . . .
a. A list of the tangible benefits (and disadvantages) to be achieved by consolidation.
b. An itemized list of the estimated costs necessary to implement consolidation.
c. Pro forma financial statements with explanatory notes that show changes in revenues and expenses resulting from consolidation.
We . . . the Committee to Save Peaine . . . take this seriously. We are trying to provide relevant information and carefully considered opinions that many voters appreciate . . . we are periodically updating our website https://wkohls.wixsite.com/consolidationinfo . . . Jack Gallagher and I have demonstrated that consolidation results in a transfer of financial resources from Peaine taxpayers to St. James taxpayers.
Oh . . . perhaps the most important question . . . how much did it cost to get this on the ballot? And, who paid for it?
The Petitioners have promised a discussion . . . thus far, itâ??s a monologue!
You did not initially attribute the sewer comment to me. Now that you have, I can deny having made that comment or any similar comments. (Look at my posts, look at the website https://wkohls.wixsite.com/consolidationinfo If this was an effective argument, I would use it.)
With respect to your remaining comments, please refer to my post on January 22, 2018. (Emphasis added.)
Itâ??s been 12 days since John and Angel posted notice that township consolidation will appear on the May 8th ballot and it has been months since they circulated their petitions. A following thoughts seem evident . . .
1. If we were staring with a â??clean sheet of paper,â? itâ??s unlikely that anyone would design our current structure comprised of two townships and, at least to my knowledge, no one believes that two townships are theoretically superior to one township.
2. The question before the voters, however, is much more complicated. Concisely stated, the questions is . . . do the net tangible benefits of consolidation justify the consequential expenditures that will be required to complete the consolidation?
3. Any savings will have to come from the townshipsâ?? general funds.
a. Most township services (including the transfer station, airport, emergency services, health center) are already consolidated.
b. The townshipsâ?? road funds are basically a pass-thru account and, accordingly, there are no savings to be realized by consolidation.
4. This is far too important to ask the Islandâ??s voters to base their decision(s) on the unsupported claims, idle speculation and conjecture on the Forum.
5. Having started this process, it is incumbent upon John and Angel to provide reliable information (other than the technical provisions of the law.)
6. The failure to provide such information creates an informational void and more responsible parties would have prepared this information before circulating petitions.
7. Township voters would not accept this from elected officials and they should not accept it from unelected petitioners.
8. At a minimum, the information to be prepared by the petitioners should include . . .
a. A list of the tangible benefits (and disadvantages) to be achieved by consolidation.
b. An itemized list of the estimated costs necessary to implement consolidation.
c. Pro forma financial statements with explanatory notes that show changes in revenues and expenses resulting from consolidation.
We . . . the Committee to Save Peaine . . . take this seriously. We are trying to provide relevant information and carefully considered opinions that many voters appreciate . . . we are periodically updating our website https://wkohls.wixsite.com/consolidationinfo . . . Jack Gallagher and I have demonstrated that consolidation results in a transfer of financial resources from Peaine taxpayers to St. James taxpayers.
Oh . . . perhaps the most important question . . . how much did it cost to get this on the ballot? And, who paid for it?
The Petitioners have promised a discussion . . . thus far, itâ??s a monologue!
I'm not here to answer the questions, I'm here, I guess, to guard the sandbox. You as supervisor and your wife Andy should know plenty of the answers to your own questions. Most of the dialogue or diatribe has come from this angle. You're not trying to protect your job surely? Funny, the sewer comment was made and yet you deny it, interesting! So as a former banker you are telling me that consolidation of costs is not a sensible then. Why then did so many banks merge in the last 25 years. Mind you, I'm not looking for a discussion to this extent I just can't believe you need these answers when you already know them!
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Andy's Grooming Barn
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:23 am
Richie you seem confused, I didn't ask you any questions I was just clarifying that the homestead tax had NOTHING to do with this vote as I am not here to protect the sandbox but to try and help so the true facts get out to the public so they can make an educated decision, no half truths, twisting around or misleading.
So just clarifying not asking you anything.
So just clarifying not asking you anything.
Andy Kohls
Andy's Grooming and Boarding Barn
Andy's Grooming and Boarding Barn
OK, Rich . . .
You make unsupported claims about cost savings, then decline to answer questions. Roughly 70% of taxes collected by the townships support consolidated activities and any savings from consolidation will have to come from the general funds. I simply do not see the potential for significant savings (without cutting services.) Furthermore, none of the benefits will accrue to the benefit of taxpayers in Peaine Township.
As a former CFO, I was involved in dozen or so bank combinations . . . valuing the target, drafting letters of intent, negotiating definitive agreements, directing post-acquisition consolidation efforts and making the financial case to brokers/analysts/shareholders. (I still have legal counselâ??s phone number committed to memory.)
Among the many lessons that I learned was that savings do not automatically happen as a result of combinations. Cost savings only result from the implementation of carefully-crafted plans that are monitored and enforced by senior management.
Many (if not most) financial analysts were critical (or at least skeptical) of bank combinations . . . management was overly optimistic about cost savings and it took too long to fully realize the savings. It was widely accepted that most combinations did not produce value for the acquiring bankâ??s shareholders.
So . . . letâ??s see the consolidation plan that will create value for all of the Islandâ??s constituents!
With respect to the sewer comment. I did not make that comment or any similar comments. Accordingly, would you please forward (via email or private message) the name(s) of the person(s) who claim otherwise?
So . . . how much did it cost to put this proposal on the ballot and who paid for it?
You make unsupported claims about cost savings, then decline to answer questions. Roughly 70% of taxes collected by the townships support consolidated activities and any savings from consolidation will have to come from the general funds. I simply do not see the potential for significant savings (without cutting services.) Furthermore, none of the benefits will accrue to the benefit of taxpayers in Peaine Township.
As a former CFO, I was involved in dozen or so bank combinations . . . valuing the target, drafting letters of intent, negotiating definitive agreements, directing post-acquisition consolidation efforts and making the financial case to brokers/analysts/shareholders. (I still have legal counselâ??s phone number committed to memory.)
Among the many lessons that I learned was that savings do not automatically happen as a result of combinations. Cost savings only result from the implementation of carefully-crafted plans that are monitored and enforced by senior management.
Many (if not most) financial analysts were critical (or at least skeptical) of bank combinations . . . management was overly optimistic about cost savings and it took too long to fully realize the savings. It was widely accepted that most combinations did not produce value for the acquiring bankâ??s shareholders.
So . . . letâ??s see the consolidation plan that will create value for all of the Islandâ??s constituents!
With respect to the sewer comment. I did not make that comment or any similar comments. Accordingly, would you please forward (via email or private message) the name(s) of the person(s) who claim otherwise?
So . . . how much did it cost to put this proposal on the ballot and who paid for it?
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Andy's Grooming Barn
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:23 am
Richie . . .
1. You have the quote backwards.
2. Board compensation is a fraction of the general fund expenditures.
3. I have the experience and, perhaps I do know the answers. Township consolidation will not provide significant benefits and the benefits will not be shared equally. Property taxes will increase in Peaine and decrease in St. James. As an Island, we should only devote our resources, our time, our energy and our efforts to projects that promise an meaningful return.
4. I keep checking my inbox, but I have not yet seen your email.
Best wishes . . .
1. You have the quote backwards.
2. Board compensation is a fraction of the general fund expenditures.
3. I have the experience and, perhaps I do know the answers. Township consolidation will not provide significant benefits and the benefits will not be shared equally. Property taxes will increase in Peaine and decrease in St. James. As an Island, we should only devote our resources, our time, our energy and our efforts to projects that promise an meaningful return.
4. I keep checking my inbox, but I have not yet seen your email.
Best wishes . . .