Quote â?? proir predictions set aside, each of us, in each individual townships as voters will make this decision, and no amount of speculation and rumor will change thatâ?.
The sad part is we are basing our votes on speculation and rumors.
John McCafferty
Interest find on township consolidations
Moderator: Gillespie
The information on consolidation savings/costs is being carefully prepared. Stop pissing in your cheerios while you jeer any chance at a constructive future for this community which needs all the help it can get to move forward! Preliminary figures are being passed around but they are not yet ready for posting until accuracy is there! Your brother in law said, 25 years ago he would make it his life's mission to unite the townships, he never did a thing! Is this where we are headed? Condemning something before it gets a chance at proof. Be patient, we've listened to your rhetoric, we are all waiting for the facts, just the facts. It could take weeks to perfect but they will be presented!
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islandliving
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
- Location: Beaver Island, Michigan
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Nancy Levant
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:41 am
From the Charlevoix Courier:
Beaver Island vote could go down in history
Residents to consider Peaine, St. James township merge
[by] Lonnie Allen (231) 547-6558 lallen@charlevoixcourier.com Jan 19, 2018
BEAVER ISLAND â?? Voters on Beaver Island will decide in May whether the islandâ??s two townships will consolidate into one.
The Charlevoix Board of Commissioners approved a resolution Wednesday to place the language to consolidate Peaine and St. James townships on the May 8 ballot.
The board of commissioners has the authority to order the election, said Beaver Island resident Pete Plastrik.
Plastrik is part of a team of individuals on the island that put the petition together for the consolidation.
â??I assume there will be a good debate in the community on what they want to do with this ballot question,â? Plastrik said. â??The point of this ballot question was to not just have this be an academic debate, but a real question to the voters. The voters now have the power to change things if they want to or not. It is up to them.â?
Getting this language on the ballot â??was not an easy thing to do,â? Plastrik said.
â??The state statute is quite old and hasnâ??t been used much,â? Plastrik said. â??There were some difficulties in figuring this out, and I think we got there and we are all quite pleased with the result.â?
Historically, as it turns out, there was an effort in the late 1950s to petition Charlevoix County to consolidate the townships, according to county clerk documents.
â??I have seen some of the old petitions,â? Plastrik said. â??Obviously, nothing happened and I donâ??t know why, but this topic has been around the island community forever.â?
If the residents on Beaver Island approve consolidation it would be a historic move in Northern Michigan, Plastrik said.
â??There has not been a lot of township consolidation in Michigan,â? Plastrik said. â??It is a rare thing and it is an even a rarer thing to get it approved.
â??What you are seeing at least for the North Country is a fairly historic event going on and it is one of the reasons it took so long to figure out how to do this exactly because there werenâ??t any precedents.â?
Angel Welke of Island Airways is also part of the team to bring the question of consolidation to the voters.
â??It is a very small community to have two townships really duplicating a lot of services,â? Welke said. â??There also is a tremendous amount of jointly owned entities between the two townships.â?
The islandâ??s airport and transfer station are jointly owned between Peaine and St. James townships along with the public marina and so on, Welke said.
â??They are all run by committees made up between the two townships.â? Welke said. â??It has become over the years a very complex and can be complicated sometime to run to all these different facilities between the two townships. This is sort of streamlining the services and that is why I put my support behind consolidation.â?
The consolidation proposal would also involve consolidating the property tax levies which Peaine and St. James townships use to support various resources, with the proposed new set of millage rates to be presented to voters with the ballot question. The fire millage will be 1 mill, health center will be 2 mills, transfer station will be 1.8 mills, roads will be 1.4 mills, airport will be .85 mills, emergency medical services will be 3 mills, historical society will be .1 mill and township operations will be at 3.6 mills.
Welke said there is support for on the island for consolidation.
â??I think there is more public support for consolidation,â? she said. â??Itâ??s been talked about for a very long time. So why not let the people vote, and if it passes the people have spoken and if it doesnâ??t they have spoken. We want the people on this island to make the decision with their vote.â?
https://www.petoskeynews.com/charlevoix ... 730e7.html
Residents to consider Peaine, St. James township merge
[by] Lonnie Allen (231) 547-6558 lallen@charlevoixcourier.com Jan 19, 2018
BEAVER ISLAND â?? Voters on Beaver Island will decide in May whether the islandâ??s two townships will consolidate into one.
The Charlevoix Board of Commissioners approved a resolution Wednesday to place the language to consolidate Peaine and St. James townships on the May 8 ballot.
The board of commissioners has the authority to order the election, said Beaver Island resident Pete Plastrik.
Plastrik is part of a team of individuals on the island that put the petition together for the consolidation.
â??I assume there will be a good debate in the community on what they want to do with this ballot question,â? Plastrik said. â??The point of this ballot question was to not just have this be an academic debate, but a real question to the voters. The voters now have the power to change things if they want to or not. It is up to them.â?
Getting this language on the ballot â??was not an easy thing to do,â? Plastrik said.
â??The state statute is quite old and hasnâ??t been used much,â? Plastrik said. â??There were some difficulties in figuring this out, and I think we got there and we are all quite pleased with the result.â?
Historically, as it turns out, there was an effort in the late 1950s to petition Charlevoix County to consolidate the townships, according to county clerk documents.
â??I have seen some of the old petitions,â? Plastrik said. â??Obviously, nothing happened and I donâ??t know why, but this topic has been around the island community forever.â?
If the residents on Beaver Island approve consolidation it would be a historic move in Northern Michigan, Plastrik said.
â??There has not been a lot of township consolidation in Michigan,â? Plastrik said. â??It is a rare thing and it is an even a rarer thing to get it approved.
â??What you are seeing at least for the North Country is a fairly historic event going on and it is one of the reasons it took so long to figure out how to do this exactly because there werenâ??t any precedents.â?
Angel Welke of Island Airways is also part of the team to bring the question of consolidation to the voters.
â??It is a very small community to have two townships really duplicating a lot of services,â? Welke said. â??There also is a tremendous amount of jointly owned entities between the two townships.â?
The islandâ??s airport and transfer station are jointly owned between Peaine and St. James townships along with the public marina and so on, Welke said.
â??They are all run by committees made up between the two townships.â? Welke said. â??It has become over the years a very complex and can be complicated sometime to run to all these different facilities between the two townships. This is sort of streamlining the services and that is why I put my support behind consolidation.â?
The consolidation proposal would also involve consolidating the property tax levies which Peaine and St. James townships use to support various resources, with the proposed new set of millage rates to be presented to voters with the ballot question. The fire millage will be 1 mill, health center will be 2 mills, transfer station will be 1.8 mills, roads will be 1.4 mills, airport will be .85 mills, emergency medical services will be 3 mills, historical society will be .1 mill and township operations will be at 3.6 mills.
Welke said there is support for on the island for consolidation.
â??I think there is more public support for consolidation,â? she said. â??Itâ??s been talked about for a very long time. So why not let the people vote, and if it passes the people have spoken and if it doesnâ??t they have spoken. We want the people on this island to make the decision with their vote.â?
https://www.petoskeynews.com/charlevoix ... 730e7.html
Nancy
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islandliving
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
- Location: Beaver Island, Michigan
I wish something similar to this townships consolidation proposal could be done at the school. Just go in and have an election that would take jobs from 50% of the employees and give them no choice or say in the matter. Wouldnâ??t have do to a lot of studies on the tax savings there. I forget the staff to student ratio?
John McCafferty
John McCafferty
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meadefamily
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:35 pm
Joe,
This is from Angel back when she announced this plan on forum. I understand your point, and you emphasized that nothing can change until Dec 2019, but looking at Angels dates they do not match yours.
Am I misunderstanding something? This is the part that is scary...there is a lot of information and opinions...but they don't seem to match and/or are easily misunderstood. I appreciate the websites created and the passion from many. What is concerning is the information created us clearly from one opinions point of view. A disinterested third party to study this seems more logical and transparent.
Of course the comments by some that are negative and vulgar certainly don't help! I will think of you Richie next time I eat my cheerios.
Joes post:
Here are the categories of the "extra" millages that cannot be increased unless voted on, IF and only IF, the consolidation takes place by a vote in each individual township.
Airport millage cannot be higher than .85 mills
Emergency medical millage not higher than... 3.0 mills
Fire millage cannot be higher than ..............1.0 mills
Health Center millage cannot be higher than 2.0 mills
Historical Society millage cannot be higher than .1 mill
Road millage cannot be higher than ........... 1.4 mills
Township Operating millage no higher than 3.6 mills
Transfer Station millage not higher than ...... 1.8 mills
This is part of the petition as filed, so we know millages will not be increased prior to 12/31/2019.
This is from Angel back when she announced this plan on forum. I understand your point, and you emphasized that nothing can change until Dec 2019, but looking at Angels dates they do not match yours.
Am I misunderstanding something? This is the part that is scary...there is a lot of information and opinions...but they don't seem to match and/or are easily misunderstood. I appreciate the websites created and the passion from many. What is concerning is the information created us clearly from one opinions point of view. A disinterested third party to study this seems more logical and transparent.
Of course the comments by some that are negative and vulgar certainly don't help! I will think of you Richie next time I eat my cheerios.
Joes post:
Here are the categories of the "extra" millages that cannot be increased unless voted on, IF and only IF, the consolidation takes place by a vote in each individual township.
Airport millage cannot be higher than .85 mills
Emergency medical millage not higher than... 3.0 mills
Fire millage cannot be higher than ..............1.0 mills
Health Center millage cannot be higher than 2.0 mills
Historical Society millage cannot be higher than .1 mill
Road millage cannot be higher than ........... 1.4 mills
Township Operating millage no higher than 3.6 mills
Transfer Station millage not higher than ...... 1.8 mills
This is part of the petition as filed, so we know millages will not be increased prior to 12/31/2019.
CHARLEVOIX COUNTY SCHEDULES TOWNSHIP CONSOLIDATION FOR BEAVER ISLAND
John Fiegen & Angel Welke
On January 10, 2018 the Charlevoix County Board of Commissioners set May 8, 2018 as the date for a vote in Peaine and St. James Townships to decide if the townships should be consolidated into one township. The county acted after receiving in November petitions signed by registered voters in both townships that met requirements of Michiganâ??s township consolidation law. We were the circulators of those petitions.
The proposal that the county authorized for the ballot on May 8, the date scheduled for statewide elections, will be as follows:
Shall the townships of Peaine and St. James be consolidated as the township of Beaver Island, with the following extra voted millages and expiration dates:
â?¢ Fire, 1.0 mill, 12/31/2018
â?¢ Health Center, 2.0 mills, 12/31/2018
â?¢ Transfer Station, 1.8 mills, 12/31/2019
â?¢ Roads, 1.4 mills, 12/31/2019
â?¢ Townshipsâ?? Airport, .85 mill, 12/31/2019
â?¢ Emergency Medical Services, 3 mills, 12/31/2019
â?¢ Historical Society, .1 mill, 12/31/2019
â?¢ Township Operation, 3.6 mills, 12/31/2018
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islandliving
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
- Location: Beaver Island, Michigan
Nancy
I have already read that post. My question was not if it was difficult to get the proposal on the ballot, or will it be ground breaking...my question was should consolidation be on the ballot, what do the numbers say? It seems effort went into getting it on, not a lot of effort into whether it should be on the ballot.
Tracey
I have already read that post. My question was not if it was difficult to get the proposal on the ballot, or will it be ground breaking...my question was should consolidation be on the ballot, what do the numbers say? It seems effort went into getting it on, not a lot of effort into whether it should be on the ballot.
Tracey
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islandliving
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
- Location: Beaver Island, Michigan
All the information that is being gathered now should have been presented before the proposal was put the ballot. This election should have been done if at all in 2020 when people have served out their elected positions instead of just taking them from them. Iâ??m happy to hear we are going to get perfect numbers on the consolidation and tax savings and not just estimated cost. And by the way I donâ??t eat Cheerios.
John McCafferty
John McCafferty
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Nancy Levant
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:41 am
Hi Tracey,
In a search to educate myself regarding township consolidation, I am now learning about the concerns of islanders on the proposed consolidation and, yes, your concern is clearly a primary issue. The Charlevoix Courier indicates that the opportunity to consolidate is "historic"; as such, the question is why is the opportunity an opportunity and for what. Who benefits and why do they benefit are fundamental questions that must be answered. Otherwise, why did people go to the trouble of starting this process and get the press to publish what is clearly the opinion that consolidation is a good thing? Besides the fact that two townships for a very small community may not be ultimately necessary, the question(s) remain as to direct benefits for changing the system, which will come with additional expenses according to the Michigan Township Association that also claims there are "winners and losers" in township consolidations. Therefore, I cannot answer your question because I simply don't know the answer, but your question is more than vital. In fact, it may be the most vital concern posted to date.
In a search to educate myself regarding township consolidation, I am now learning about the concerns of islanders on the proposed consolidation and, yes, your concern is clearly a primary issue. The Charlevoix Courier indicates that the opportunity to consolidate is "historic"; as such, the question is why is the opportunity an opportunity and for what. Who benefits and why do they benefit are fundamental questions that must be answered. Otherwise, why did people go to the trouble of starting this process and get the press to publish what is clearly the opinion that consolidation is a good thing? Besides the fact that two townships for a very small community may not be ultimately necessary, the question(s) remain as to direct benefits for changing the system, which will come with additional expenses according to the Michigan Township Association that also claims there are "winners and losers" in township consolidations. Therefore, I cannot answer your question because I simply don't know the answer, but your question is more than vital. In fact, it may be the most vital concern posted to date.
Nancy
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islandliving
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
- Location: Beaver Island, Michigan
Possible mistake
Well, it looks like some of the millage make expire in December 2018. That being said, all millage, if it expires, will need to be voted on by the voters. It is possible that the millage request will be higher than those presented in my post for Fire Department and township operations.
Somewhere I have a video that states that the medical center millage request cannot be higher than 2.0 mills, and this is in the minutes of the townships somewhere.
Now, how likely is the fire millage to increase? You'll have to ask the BIESA which will be the group to ask for millage for the fire department. The millage for township operations must be the one that may be the concerning one for some.
So I made a mistake in my post for these three millage expirations. I would still challenge someone to provide me with some kind of proof that the costs will increase beyond the current millage rates that do not expire until, at the earliest, December 2018.
We will all still have to vote the millage requests that are mentioned above.
Joe Moore
Somewhere I have a video that states that the medical center millage request cannot be higher than 2.0 mills, and this is in the minutes of the townships somewhere.
Now, how likely is the fire millage to increase? You'll have to ask the BIESA which will be the group to ask for millage for the fire department. The millage for township operations must be the one that may be the concerning one for some.
So I made a mistake in my post for these three millage expirations. I would still challenge someone to provide me with some kind of proof that the costs will increase beyond the current millage rates that do not expire until, at the earliest, December 2018.
We will all still have to vote the millage requests that are mentioned above.
Joe Moore
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islandliving
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
- Location: Beaver Island, Michigan
consolidation of townships is not just a topic on Beaver Island. Another interesting read, food for thought.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/201 ... 004422001/
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/201 ... 004422001/
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Andy's Grooming Barn
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:23 am
Although this might be an interesting article, I see little to no relevance to our situation.
The article states combining boards could save money, most of our boards are already combined and most of our boards get little to no compensation so not a lot of savings there. Then the article talks of combining fire and EMS which could save money and make a better fire department and ems, this I could see for most consolidations of townships but our fire and ems are already combined so I see no savings or change there either.
This article talks about most townships but Beaver Island and it's townships are far from most, unless I am missing something I don't see much of a comparison. We have one airport, one transfer station, one ems, one health center, one fire department etc. so we only have one board already for each of these areas, where is the money being saved of combining because none of this would change although there would be costs involved in reconstructing, red tape legal crap because we would be combining these but I see no savings. I think we will be hard pressed to find other townships anywhere else that even come close to our situation so in my opinion it will be hard to compare.
The article states combining boards could save money, most of our boards are already combined and most of our boards get little to no compensation so not a lot of savings there. Then the article talks of combining fire and EMS which could save money and make a better fire department and ems, this I could see for most consolidations of townships but our fire and ems are already combined so I see no savings or change there either.
This article talks about most townships but Beaver Island and it's townships are far from most, unless I am missing something I don't see much of a comparison. We have one airport, one transfer station, one ems, one health center, one fire department etc. so we only have one board already for each of these areas, where is the money being saved of combining because none of this would change although there would be costs involved in reconstructing, red tape legal crap because we would be combining these but I see no savings. I think we will be hard pressed to find other townships anywhere else that even come close to our situation so in my opinion it will be hard to compare.
Andy Kohls
Andy's Grooming and Boarding Barn
Andy's Grooming and Boarding Barn
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Nancy Levant
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:41 am
Another two centsâ??transparency: Potential predetermined outcomes of township consolidation, or whether a domination of strong personalities or committees toward a predetermined end exists, it should be considered that, as in all levels of government, a potential lack of transparency necessarily results in the raising of red flags, because the worst kind of voter is an uninformed and/or misled voter.
Should this be a dichotomous vote, this is in fact a two-sided issue with both sides/arguments equally legitimate to ensure the process remains voter-centered. If the entire community was not afforded the opportunity to weigh in on whether they wanted township consolidation on a ballot, the community should not be facilitated, which is disrespectful; they should not be pressured, one side or the other, but only provided all requested facts upon which to draw personal conclusions. Consider the results of â??We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it [The Affordable Care Act/Obamacare].â?
Should this be a dichotomous vote, this is in fact a two-sided issue with both sides/arguments equally legitimate to ensure the process remains voter-centered. If the entire community was not afforded the opportunity to weigh in on whether they wanted township consolidation on a ballot, the community should not be facilitated, which is disrespectful; they should not be pressured, one side or the other, but only provided all requested facts upon which to draw personal conclusions. Consider the results of â??We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it [The Affordable Care Act/Obamacare].â?
Nancy